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Author Topic: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!  (Read 14626 times)

Offline Wyoming08

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The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« on: November 25, 2011, 04:26:37 PM »
 :bash: I read this on The Eastmans Journal...It's starting here now and I think Most of us saw a dramatic change in species numbers this year especially.

The Predator Death Spiral…
Nov 22 2011

The Western States management systems are not set up to handle uncontrolled, "Super Predators".
We’re continuing to see an alarming trend in Western wildlife management. I am calling it the “Predator Death Spiral.” The underlying cause of this phenomina is when a wildlife agency attempts to hide or “pad” their big game population estimates when over predation begins to take hold. This in turn creates a downward spiral that cannot easily be avoided, and is often not even noticed until the state hits both a financial and PR rock bottom. Idaho was the first state to hit the wall with the “Spiral” followed by Montana and now Wyoming has begun to slip into the Spiral’s grip. The wolf situation has caused these three Western states to slide down the jagged slope of diminishing herds, shrinking revenues and bad PR among their customers and financial lifeline…out-of-state hunters.

The details of the spiral start out very subtle. The wolves, cougars and grizzly bears start to take a few more elk and moose each year as their unchecked populations grow and expand. The state does not react at first with cuts in the tag quotas. This would mean a decrease in revenue that would have to be met with either more tags somewhere else or even worse, budget cuts. So they do what most Government agencies would do in this situation…nothing! After a few years of turning a blind eye to the situation a bad winter like the winter we had in 2006 and 2011 hit and further accelerated the problem. But, the bad winter was even worse than imagined from a wildlife management perspective. The increased snowpack and cold temps caused far more than the usual winter kill. The predators did extremely well because of the increased snowpack that gathered the herds even tighter than usual, on heavy snow accumulations that created a wolves dream come true scenario. A concentrated food source stuck in a snow bank that cannot escape…perfect. After the long cold winter is over the elk and deer that did survive go into the spring in tough shape. Many of the cows and does have aborted their young in order to survive.

The post winter mortality counts come back into the department as an alarming number. But budgets have to be met. So being ever optimistic the state decides to give the remaining quotas just one more year to see if they might bounce back. After-all, the counts could have been flawed, there is no way we could have lost that many big game assets in one year, right?

The next fall the hunters are complaining, the harvest stats are coming back very low and things are not looking good on the PR front. Many non-resident hunters are threatening not to apply the following year and the outfitters are starting to make their voices heard.

The state reacts, and cuts the elk tags inside the wolf  and winter zones. But the money has to be made up somewhere, after all a few hundred non-resident elk tags equate to big money. So the state moves to increase the quotas on elk outside the wolf zone and increase the deer and antelope tags substantially in an effort to compensate for the loss in revenue.


As wolves continue to take their toll, state Game and Fish Departments struggle to make their budgets as big game populations plummet and demand for non-resident licenses crash.

A second harsh winter strikes and wipes out the antelope and deer herd excesses. Things are looking bad, but the state budgeteers don’t give up easily. Someone recommends the idea of raising license costs to all hunters, after all supply and demand economics formulas say a non-resident elk tag should go for over $2,500. But the resident tag increases get shot down by the commission but everyone likes the idea of sticking to the non-resident hunter a bit more. They can afford it, have you seen how much a house in California is worth? (pre-2008 of course). The following fall the hunters don’t see near the game they did even the previous year. Things are getting bad. Thanks to the internet the word gets out and many of the non-resident hunters move their camps and non-resident dollars to Colorado and New Mexico to hunt elk and deer.

The next thing the state knows, they are sitting on millions of dollars worth of unclaimed and unwanted non-resident tags. Now with the wildlife resource in shambles and a multi-million dollar budget shortfall the state is finally forced to wake up and smell the coffee. This isn’t the 1970′s…it’s no surprise to us that a non-resident hunter who pays over $1,000 for an elk tag expects a good elk hunt, why should it come as a surprise to the state Game and Fish Commission? But it does. What the state fails to realize is, that once they began to charge that kind of money for tags and preference points they in affect gave up the option to simply brush it off as a “bad winter, try again next year” excuse that worked so well in the past.  In the information age non-resident hunters no longer accept excuses easily.

This is the bottom. A state is stuck to come clean and admit they are in a real hole. They don’t have the wildlife any longer to support their budgetary needs and their customers know it. This is the type of situation where a little fudge in numbers here and there has created a beast that cannot be controlled and is getting bigger, badder and uglier every year until the bottom is hit.

Why? Because it would mean that the states would have to admit to contributing to their own financial demise. Some Western Fish and Game Departments have in fact become a wolf in sheep’s clothing to their constituants. Some inside the departments have, although reluctantly, in some cases went along with the Federal Government’s master plan to re-introduce super predators back into the ecosystem to eventually control big game herds without the use of hunters. It’s almost as if the state neglected to realize that this would, in fact, slit their own throats by gutting their departments of the necessary funding to run.

And this is not just a Wyoming, Montana and Idaho problem. Wolves have already begun to take hold in Washington, Oregon and Utah. Nevada, and Colorado are certainly next. And for all of you midwest whitetail hunters out there, sorry, your not safe either. The government has devised a plan to expand the Mexican wolf North from Arizona and New Mexico into Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa, North and South Dakota and Nebraska to connect with the upper midwest wolf populations in Minnesota and Wisconsin. This would give super predators a way to control whitetail deer populations minus the use of hunting as a management tool.

This is a critical situation but all is not lost yet. There have been huge strides made in the recent wolf debate and wolves are starting to be controlled now in Montana and Idaho. We all as hunters need to keep pressure on our politicians and state agencies to make sure they do the right thing for our wildlife. We pay them to manage our wildlife resource in a responsible manner, make them earn their money. Taking the easy way out is not good enough. They need to do better, our big game wildlife resource depends on it.

Drop me a line and let me know what your thoughts are…maybe I’m just a conspiracy theorist…who knows. I know what I’ve heard and seen first hand so far, though, and it’s not looking good.

Guy

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Offline Machias

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 09:35:58 PM »
Bullseye!
Fred Moyer

When it's Grim, be the GRIM REAPER!

Offline longstevo

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 09:51:58 PM »
So again, and I always wonder this every time I read one of these articles...

Just what can WE do?  We're all a bunch of unorganized blue collar workers/hunters after all.  I know my words wouldn't be heard on Washington's capitol hill.  Is writing our representatives really going to be enough?  They're all lying sacks anyways, and would tell us that they support our issue, while turning around and voting the other way. 

I think we're kinda screwed no matter what.
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 10:23:47 PM »
If you don't let them know how you feel they'll never know. One voice seems like nothing but added with your breathren it matters. That's why we must all speak up.
If they vote against your opinion then help to vote them out.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline wraithen

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 10:56:29 PM »
We can do our part to work our asses of to fill our tags for all predators we're drawn for
the head has been lopped of the eagle.our country has become a nation of losers,them that feed on the teet and can do no more than suckle from them that toil. ~ Rasbo

Offline ICEMAN

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 06:07:17 AM »
I sure hope we find a way to recover from this. What a horrible legacy to leave our kids.
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Offline Dave Workman

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 08:21:37 AM »
Wyoming...

Link please

L-I-N-K!!!!!


This is essentially what I and others have been saying. I just haven't bothered to put it in writing so succinctly.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 11:06:20 AM by Dave Workman »
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Offline Special T

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 12:12:34 PM »
1 JOIN WFW! upper RH corner...You can join for FREE!
2 VOTE Vote a GOV in that will address WDFW issues, and is pro hunter. Kick Murrey and Cantwell out vote some one else in!
3 write your state congressmen and make them aware or your concern.
4 Tell your Congressional REP that you want the wolves taken off the ESA and the ESA needs to be changed /fixed.
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Offline longstevo

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 08:44:46 PM »
Where can we get the contact information on our reps again?   :P
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Offline Special T

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In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline Dave Workman

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 11:22:00 AM »
Link to Eastman's story

http://www.eastmans.com/guy/2011/11/the-predator-death-spiral/



And the link to mine:

Are we seeing beginnings of backlash over wolves?

 Call it coincidental timing or something else, but two essays have appeared in the past few days that have captured the attention of Northwest hunters, who seem prepared to fight back against what they feel is a tidal wave of wolf expansion that has not been very well thought through.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/are-we-seeing-beginnings-of-pendulum-reversal-over-wolves

« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 01:31:06 PM by Dave Workman »
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence

Offline Kain

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 06:57:31 PM »
Man this is exactly right on.  There is an equally scary trend happening that they are lowering predator population estimates.  You can read the WFW letter to the WDFW where we question the population estimates for cougars. 

http://www.hunt.info/Cougar_Letter_06-29-11.pdf

In 2002 the est. cougar population was 2400-4000 cats.  In 2003 that est. was lowered to 1900-2100 cats.  When I got a response from Dr. Martorello he explained that it was not really a decline in cougar populations but a "better" way of estimating their numbers.  What is scary is what happens when these numbers are used to estimate the numbers of ungulates that are killed by cougars.  If you use the WDFW's estimate that a cougar will make a deer sized kill every ten days there was 87,600-146,000 ungulates taken by cougars in 2002 but in 2003 their new estimates would show that there were only 69,350-76,650 ungulates killed.   If the deer and elk managers are using these numbers they will see 18,250-69,350 new animals magically appear out of thin air.   :yike:  When in reallity there was no actual decrease in the number of cougars or predation on ungulates.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 07:04:18 PM by Kain »

Offline Kain

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2011, 07:08:12 PM »
There are also studies that show that cougars make a kill every 7 days.  Even further throwing these estimates into the danger zone of the "predator spiral" mentioned above.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2011, 07:08:32 PM »
Dave,
Any chance we will see some of newspapers in the state pick up these articles so the public gets something besides predator love?
Bruce Vandervort

Offline wraithen

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Re: The Predator Spiral! HAPPENING NOW HERE!
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2011, 07:11:21 PM »
With the cougar populations in California, there's more competition from what I've heard. I read somewhere that if they killed once a week it was a very very slow week due to other animals chasing them off their kills.
the head has been lopped of the eagle.our country has become a nation of losers,them that feed on the teet and can do no more than suckle from them that toil. ~ Rasbo

 


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